🎙️Episode 6: Facing Your Decision-Making Fears (Even if it's About a Cat)

Sometimes, making decisions feels harder than it should be—like when Ashley found herself spiraling over the idea of getting a cat. Would it destroy her house? Wreck her sleep? Would people judge her for adopting a pet she couldn’t handle? Turns out, this seemingly small decision actually hit on some pretty big fears.

In this episode of All We Know About the Stuff We Know, Ashley and Dave tackle the fears that get in the way of making effective decisions—and how to overcome them. They delve into psychology behind why fears—like fear of failure, loss, or being judged—tend to shape our decisions and often hold us back from making important choices. Dave and Ashley explore practical ways to name and tame your fears so you can move forward with more confidence, whether at work or in your personal life. The dialogue also touches on the dynamics of team decision-making, highlighting the impact of groupthink and the importance of creating an environment where all voices are heard. Ultimately, the conversation encourages listeners to confront their fears and embrace growth for better decision-making.

What Are We Really Afraid Of?

Dave points out that understanding your fears is key: "Fear drives behavior—even when we think we’re motivated by something else." Here are five major fears that often get in the way:

1. Fear of Failure: What if it doesn’t work out? (Or the cat wreaks havoc on the furniture.)

2. Fear of Regret: Will I wish I hadn’t made this choice later on?

3. Fear of the Unknown: What unexpected challenges might this decision bring?

4. Fear of Loss: What could I lose—my peace, my time, my sanity?

5. Fear of Judgment: Will others think I made a mistake?

Why We Focus on Worst-Case Scenarios

Ashley’s cat dilemma might sound trivial, but it’s a perfect example of how our minds can blow up even small decisions when fear takes over. Whether it’s adopting a pet, changing jobs, or moving cities, our brains often zero in on the risks instead of the rewards.

How to Move Through Fear in Decision Making

• Identify Your Fears: Whether it’s fear of failure, regret, the unknown, loss, or judgment, recognizing your fears is the first step toward making better decisions.

• The Role of Fear in Behavior: Dave discusses how fear can unconsciously drive decision-making, often without us realizing it.

• Loss Aversion Bias: Understanding why we naturally focus on avoiding loss rather than seeking gains—and how that mindset can hold us back.

• DiSC Styles and Fear: Different DiSC behavioral styles experience decision-making fears differently—like the dominant D style’s fear of losing control.

• Team Dynamics and Fear: How fear of judgment or contradicting groupthink can stifle innovation and smart decision-making within teams.

Final Thoughts

We all have fears that sneak into our decision-making process. Sometimes they’re valid, and sometimes they’re just a little over the top. By naming them, we take away their power and make room for more intentional choices. Next time you’re stuck, think about what’s really holding you back—is it the decision itself, or just the fear of making a mistake?

Ready to explore your own decision-making fears? Tune in to this episode of All We Know About the Stuff We Know and find out how to push through the doubts.

Listen or Watch This Episode:

Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube

🔗 Resources Mentioned

• What does each DiSC Style fear? Read our blog.

• Curious about your DiSC style? Get your profile here!

• Want to be a better decision maker in 20 minutes? Our e-book packs a punch! 5 Things You Need to Know About Making Decisions

• Is your team facing a complex decision? Book a workshop.

• Want to learn our decision making courses on demand? Check out our Decision Focus Course Suite.

  
  

We've included the transcript for your reading pleasure below.

Episode 6 | Is Fear Driving Your Decision Making? | 5 Things You Need to Know About Decision Making

Dave (01:37)

If I'm not seeking growth, can't complain about my current situation. I can't complain about the fact that I don't have more than I have. I can't complain about the fact that I can't do something when I should.

Ashley Martin (01:47)

You are dropping the mic on us.

Dave (01:49)

So comfort is the enemy of growth, really. And that plays out in a lot of different ways. Should I stay in the job? That means, I'm going to have some discomfort and I don't know if I can live with that. Or should I leave because that's going to feel good temporarily. And so if I'm only, concerned about my own comfort, I might just choose to leave because I got to make this pain go away now and I got to seek comfort.

Ashley Martin (02:15)

it's so good. Like these nuggets, like I could, I could cry just hearing some of the things that you say about control and freedom to choose and, needing the power and our own autonomy. Like that, that's what it boils down to is like, we're afraid to do things differently because we are so comfortable in our discomfort that it is just frustrating when it's time to flip the script because we live so long in that certain way that we don't want to break free from it because breaking free is freaking scary. It's scary.

Dave (02:52)

Yeah, and you know what, you have just given us the very best segue into the third thing that you didn't know that you really do need to know about making decisions.

Ashley Martin (03:03)

I'm excited. So if you've missed it, we've talked in a couple of different podcast episodes about thing one and thing two that you didn't know that you needed to know about decision making. So go back and listen to those episodes. And now we're going to talk about thing three.

Dave (03:06)

Right. Right. Yeah, so we've been kind of skating around the edges of this. And so here is, yeah, the third thing you really didn't know that you really do need to know about making good decisions. And you really need to know what your biggest fears are in making decisions. What your biggest fears are in making decisions.

Ashley Martin (03:38)

hard conversations with people.

Dave (03:40)

Yeah, I know. So, and why is this important? Well, you know, we can probably figure it out, but...

Ashley Martin (03:49)

Because I need to grow? Is  that what you told me in the last segment? needed to like, growth is powerful. Like growth is better than

Dave (03:54)

Yeah, you need to get a couple more inches and grow. Get some heels.

Dave (04:03)

So why do we need to know our fears? Because fear drives behavior, right? Fears drive behaviors. Now we could say, yeah, not me, I'm not driven by fears, I'm driven by what motivates me. Well, you know, it's really kind of the same, it's a flip side of the same coin. You can either, you're, in life or a lot of times we're either running towards something or we're running away from something.

Ashley Martin (04:31)

You don't think we're just like stagnant, kind of in the middle, not doing anything. Do you think inaction is action or not making a decision is a decision, right? Because you're not going towards it. So essentially you are running away because you're standing still. Yeah. that's some inception crazy stuff.

Dave (04:40)

Yeah.

So yeah, so you gotta know what your main fears are and there's a couple of different ways you can do that. so again, just like our other conversation is we can kind of frame this as are you making decisions in your personal life or are you making decisions at work as part of a team or business related decisions? So let's talk about personal life I jotted down a couple of these and some of these are not gonna be, new but they're still going to be important. Okay, so the first one, fear of failure. What if I, make a decision and it goes bad? Or the flip side of that is fear of regret, right? I made a decision, I, again, this is personal life, I made a decision, I did something and I'm looking back and I'm going, ⁓ man, I never should have done that. And so that fear of having that emotion of regret can sometimes drive behavior, right? Because we're trying to run away from that. We're trying to run away from that feeling of regret. And both of those are kind of driven about the third thing that's absolutely present in every decision. And that's fear of the unknown, right? Because decisions by definition involve the future. We're going to do something to affect the future and the future is unknown. I mean, we think we know.

future but a lot of stuff that's out there that's beyond our control so the fear of the unknown is inherent in every decision and for some of us that's a bigger deal than the others of us and that you can tie some of that back to behavior style. Some behavior styles you know what yeah we need to have everything buttoned up other behavior styles are like you know let's see what happens The other fear in personal decisions is

fear of loss. And what I mean by that is the fear of losing something. So what that something could be, could be money, could be comfort, could be relationships, could be something like that. wrote an article about this cognitive biases things that the way we think that gets in the way of making good decisions. And there's one bias out there called loss aversion bias. Okay, loss aversion bias. And the way it goes is this. It says, pain of a loss is more than twice as severe as the pleasure of a gain. Okay, so the the pain experienced in a loss is much greater than the pleasure experienced in a gain.

Ashley Martin (07:27)

That's math. Twice is what? Say it again for me. I focus on the loss. I don't think about the gain. Case in point, I thought about getting a kitten. And here I am focusing on the next 18 to 20 years of my life of a commitment that I'm going to have to this cat. I fear losing my sleep nightly because this cat might bang down my door and there goes my peaceful Zen den.

Dave (07:52)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martin (07:58)

I fear he's gonna get sick and he's gonna get run over and then eventually he's gonna die and I'm gonna have to go through all those emotions, right? But a friend of mine was like, Ashley, just think of the kitty snuggles. Just think of that. Right? And so like I think naturally we tend to focus on what can go wrong rather than what can be really, really great for our life.

Dave (08:05)

Yeah. And again, that kind of gets back to that, maybe that comfort mindset. You know, we sometimes we fear change because change causes discomfort and that feeling of discomfort,

Ashley Martin (08:28)

Mm.

Dave (08:34)

especially if it gets translated in some kind of a loss or a gap. my gosh, this change, this is going to go wrong and that's going to go wrong. And I'm going to experience that loss. instead of, doing something to go after a gain, I'm just gonna do nothing. Yeah, so the growth, exactly. And that I think if, you know, most of us, I think are kind of pre-wired that way, again, because of the comfort bias. And so we gotta find a way to break through that and say,

Ashley Martin (08:49)

Yeah. The opposite of growth.

Dave (09:07)

You know what? Let's look at the gains and then let's take a really serious look at the losses. Okay, if this and this this happens, what's the worst case scenario? We're going to talk to my friend Tim in one of the episodes coming up and he has an amazing business career. He ran a business unit in a large multinational organization of I think it was like 14,000 people.

Anyway, one of his favorite things he used to say when people came to him with decisions and wanted the approval, his favorite question is, what's the worst case scenario if it goes bad? What's the worst case scenario? And can we recover from it? What will we do if we run into that? And how bad is that really? And so that took a lot of fear out of those decisions. And it also kind of harks back to what we talked about in one of earlier episodes. Are your decisions irreversible?

you know, or can we recover from them? And that's what he's trying to sort out with that question, what's the worst case scenario? So one of the tips that we have, if you are prone to that loss aversion, is to ask that question, well, what's the worst case scenario? And can I recover from that? And how big of a deal will that be? Versus what's the potential gain? Sometimes you don't know what the potential gains are until you start experiencing them. But those questions might free you up to be able to face those kinds of decisions

Ashley Martin (10:31)

Right, right. For me, the worst case scenario was this cat just destroys my house and destroys my life. And the option there was just don't open the door when he wants to come back.

Dave (10:39)

Yeah. We're not talking about like a cheetah or anything, are we? This is just a cat, right?

Ashley Martin (10:54)

so much fear about it and he loves being outside and if he would tear up my house and tear up my life and just disrupt my peace you could just enjoy being an outside cat and that's okay.

Dave (11:01)

Yeah.

Yeah, well, and so that brings me to the next fear. my gosh, how many do we have? We got a lot of fears out there. But the next fear, and again, this is probably more of a personal decision than a business decision, but it's the fear of being judged by others, right? Bought the cat, the cat turned out to be a mess, my house is a mess, my life is ruined, and now those around me are going, I told you so, I told you you shouldn't have gotten the cat. See what happened.

Ashley Martin (11:33)

No, no, no,

no, no, no. Here's where the judgment would come in. I made the decision that if he does X, Y, Z, I'm not gonna open the door to let him in my house and he could be an outdoor cat. I fear being judged. ⁓ Ashley got this cat and now she can't handle it. And now she's gonna just let him stay outside. What a terrible mother she is. What if it gets cold? What if he gets hungry? What if he gets hit by a car? What a terrible person she is for getting this cat and then retracting on that decision.

Dave (12:09)

I guess you've thought through this,

Ashley Martin (12:12)

the over thinker has not thought about any of this. Nuh-uh. Nothing whatsoever.

Dave (12:16)

Yeah. But you know what? Those little voices are always there, aren't they? For some of us. others, they might not be. For some of us, they are. And so recognizing that upfront to saying, here's kind of the fears I am susceptible to. And like a lot of things in life, once you name them, you can do something a lot of times in decisions, we don't do that. We don't name our fears

Ashley Martin (12:22)

They talk. They're loud

Dave (12:40)

And again, you're talking about a personal decision that involved pretty much just you, right? But there's other decisions that involve others, maybe family members, maybe friends and so forth. And so that's even harder

Ashley Martin (12:53)

yeah. So you're talking about like naming the fear and when you name the fear it loses its power. And so far we've covered one, two, three, four, five things, five fears that we have. Failure, regret, fear of the unknown, fear of loss, fear of judgment. And to me, it's just all bad and all uncomfortable and I feel it in my body. I don't know how to name it because it's just big and all encompassing.

Dave (13:11)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so we'll give you some anecdotes to those things. But I'm guessing most everybody will have some kind of deep embedded fears that they have to deal with in making decisions.

Now some people, like I said earlier, some people might say, well, I don't have any fears I'm a great decision maker. So I'll rephrase it. So maybe it's not fear. Maybe it's discomfort. Maybe it's, you know, just that little voice in your head that's questioning that prevents you from being a hundred percent committed to that decision. Those are all things that are potential stumbling blocks.

For example, you and I were talking about DiSC last time, And so some styles, some behavioral styles are great with making decisions. They have no trouble making decisions, right? Because they have no fear. But if you dig deeper, you realize, yep, guess what? There are some fears. So for example, in DiSC language, the D style, the dominant style, loves making decisions, can make them quickly and move on. They're happy to...

Ashley Martin (14:08)

because they have no fear.

Dave (14:26)

⁓ change course if it, decision's not working, they're, they're fine saying, okay, let's, let's course correct and move this way. what they do.

Ashley Martin (14:33)

Yeah, because they don't mind taking risks. They have a less fear of failure than other people.

Dave (14:35)

Right. But what they do mind is, in that whole process, losing control of making decisions. Or losing control of something, like in a business decision, if a decision is made by somebody with that personality style, that DiSC style, and it goes wrong and now it's time to pivot, that person may, you know, their fear is, they're going to take me off the project. They're going to put someone else in charge.

They're going to make me work with this guy, that guy, and the other guy. And now it's going to be a team decision and we're going to ruminate forever and we'll get nothing done. That's a fear of that style. Yes. Yeah.

Ashley Martin (15:16)

Are we talking about D-style? The dominant style? Still? Okay.

Fear of control because then they might have to do things... Loss of control because they might have to do things they don't want to do. Or they...

Dave (15:29)

Right, or they may have to work with people

they don't want to work with, or they may have to get approvals from people they don't need or in their own mind approvals from, but they have to do it. Or kind of the flip side of that fear is fear of the process dragging down to a grinding, slow snail's pace.

Ashley Martin (15:50)

They like speed, they like results, they like to get things done. So when things are dragging, they're like,

Dave (15:53)

Yeah.

Exactly. So yeah, I go back to my earlier statement. Every style, every person has something embedded that's going to cause them some discomfort or fear in the decision making process.

Ashley Martin (16:11)

sure. Would it be worth it maybe in another episode to go into what each of the disc styles fear? What each of the segments of people would potentially fear? I think we have a handout about that.

Dave (16:19)

Sure. we wrote about some of that in one of our blogs. Yeah, but yeah, we can come back and talk about that. So then you can also say, okay, well, these fears are, are they logical or reasonable? You know, yeah, they are if they if they are part of that what's holding you back from either making a smart decision or making a decision at all, then yeah, then they're real.

Ashley Martin (16:29)

Okay, okay, maybe I'll link it in the show notes. Okay.

Dave (16:52)

Sometimes though we take them too far and they become kind of irrational fears. Yeah, so for example, I read about this, I read about a story about an individual who basically chose not to take a certain job because that person didn't like, and this might sound really weird, but.

Ashley Martin (17:00)

Like what?

Dave (17:20)

didn't want to deal with success if he did really well on the job. Yeah. Yep.

Ashley Martin (17:25)

⁓ that's a common fear, actually.

You might get too much put on you, like more projects and more people.

Dave (17:33)

Yeah, you know, I can do the job but I don't know if

I want to because if I'm really successful at it then They're gonna give me more they're gonna. Okay. Let's you've done this now We want you to do this this and that and now I got more responsibilities

Ashley Martin (17:47)

Yeah,

it's going to infringe on my work-life balance. I have that fear as well, I do.

Dave (17:53)

Yep.

Or I might lose relationships because now I'm up here in the organization versus all my peers that are somewhere else. So are they rational or irrational? I don't know. I think that's in the eyes of the holder. But again, that's a fear that you would say, I have to confront this and work through it and decide what I should do about it in this particular decision

Ashley Martin (18:00)

Yeah? Yep.

Dave (18:17)

Have you ever been with somebody and you're proposing to do something like, you know, hey, let's go on a trip. Well, you know, where are we going to go? Oh we're going to go here? ⁓ know, traffic's going to be really bad. you know what? I hear the hotels there are just terribly overpriced. ⁓ I hear that, you know, the night scene really isn't that good. And have you heard about the crime in this area? my gosh. You know, I don't think we should go. So those are all kind of

I don't know kind of theory you'd call it. You'd probably call it overplaying risks, to say no.

Ashley Martin (18:54)

No. I call it fear of having fun.

Dave (18:58)

Yes, yes. You're doing something, right? So, again, if you find yourself doing that, well, I don't want to do this because this could go wrong and that could go wrong and this other thing could go wrong then you're overstating, you know, risks or things that could go wrong just because

Ashley Martin (19:16)

See, I just wouldn't plan a trip with that person. I would run away, I would fire myself and go find myself a new person, a new travel buddy. I don't know if that's healthy.

Dave (19:23)

Yep. Yep.

So let's see we got, okay, here's another irrational risk. I don't know if I've ever seen anyone do that, here's someone who would say, I never make decisions on Fridays. Really? Why?

Ashley Martin (19:42)

I like to take the weekend, I like to sleep on it, and I'll follow back up on Monday or Tuesday morning. How about that?

Dave (19:44)

You heard?

That's right, Or you may disagree with me, but since I may name your sign, since I'm a, what's your sign?

Ashley Martin (19:58)

Are you talking about astrological sign? I'm a Virgo, you're a Libra. You're very diplomatic in your decision making and you ain't gonna wanna ruffle feathers and I'm a perfectionist so I don't want things to go wrong. I have fear of failure.

Dave (19:58)

Yeah. Okay.

Well, now we know that. Yeah, but sometimes people overplay it. Because I'm a Virgo, I would never do this. So now you just place limiting, you know, limits on your behavior because of something that may or may not be relevant. Now I know a lot of folks who who.

Ashley Martin (20:15)

All the things you didn't want to know. Something that's stupid.

Dave (20:37)

put a lot of credibility in some of that stuff. And that's fine. Yeah.

Ashley Martin (20:41)

I do. I do.

Dave (20:53)

Then finally, okay, here's one more, then you tell me if it's rational or irrational. Fear of what the social media world, let's put it this way, fear of behaving incongruent with my social media persona. Okay, so some folks like to create their own brand or persona in social media, and so the world out there thinks of them in one way.

Ashley Martin (20:57)

Okay, good.

Dave (21:21)

If in real life they act in a different way, then that causes some potential discomfort or fear. you know what? Online I'm this way, yet I'm acting this other way. What should I do?

Ashley Martin (21:35)

Are you talking about the fear of being your true self?

Dave (21:37)

Yeah, yeah,

yeah. If I've created a brand or a persona that's different than my true self, I'm going to have problems, you know, because that incongruency is not going to last. yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And that's, that's kind of the, the one of the darker sides of social media is that we can seek to create a

Ashley Martin (21:50)

Been there.

Dave (21:59)

persona or brand and if that is you know if this is our true self and our brand or persona is way out here and that gap is going to expose itself.

Ashley Martin (22:09)

I have a question. Do you have social media?

Dave (22:11)

Hahaha!

Ashley Martin (22:12)

Real question. Answer the question, Dave.

Dave (22:13)

Yeah, yeah, here's my social media. Yeah, I call or text my buddies and that's about it. I know it. do have an Instagram account and I scroll through because I've got some friends and some athletes as you know that I like to follow on Instagram and I've got some other folks I like to follow, but I don't post anything. I'm just a consumer.

Ashley Martin (22:19)

We're gonna downgrade your phone. You don't even have a profile picture. Like I was gonna tag our handles on the Stuff We Know Show on Instagram and I was gonna be like hosted by @ AshMasterFlash and at what's his handle? Is this him? The non-profile picture? At Dave Osgood something like.

Dave (22:39)

Yeah.

All right, so I've got some work to do, right?

Ashley Martin (22:57)

No, like, I don't want to make you into anything that you're not. If they want to find me, they'll find me. So that's, that's just more work. But maybe you would like to share the things that I post on our Instagram page to your personal. And if I tag you, you could easily do that. If I don't tag you, you couldn't. like, ⁓ right. All the followers that you're going to share the content with.

Dave (23:03)

The day one of the semester. Let me just see how many followers I'm up to.

You know what? I have seven followers.

Ashley Martin (23:29)

because you have no profile picture and no content and you don't care. that is like, that's congruent with who you are. I don't need the social media brand. So I'm not gonna do this.

Dave (23:38)

Exactly.

But now you've just given me a reason to because yeah, we can spread the word a little bit about all this, All We Know About The Stuff We Know Yeah, yeah. So anyway, back to the discussion of fears. We talked mainly about personal decisions, but there's some in the business, so I'll just run through a couple more while we have a couple minutes, if you don't mind. If you don't

Ashley Martin (23:51)

I I know.

If you don't mind me tapping out, because I'm exhausted from the conversation. Okay, I'm tuning in. I gotta shake it out. I gotta wake up. What are we talking about again?

Dave (24:10)

I know. Alright, so for like, for business and for team decisions, okay, settle down. Alright, for team decisions.

Ashley Martin (24:21)

Okay, I'm awake now What do we do in live workshops? And when people start falling asleep, you gotta make them stand up, do a mental puzzle or something.

Dave (24:27)

Well, first of all, people do not fall asleep okay? No, they just give me the look of boredom and righteous indignation, really?

Ashley Martin (24:30)

They don't? Nobody fell asleep on Friday?

Yes, yes, yes. And you're an empath, so you got the hint. Okay.

Dave (24:40)

Yeah, exactly, exactly. All right, so we've all heard of the term group think. so in some, and that's kind of a social thing. And some teams that have been around for a while, they get their own personality and their own way of doing things and they're comfortable with one another. And if you are somebody who is a dissenter or who has an opinion different than the prevailing group think, then...

you're going to get, you may get ostracized. may get poop, you know, the get shut down, you might get ostracized. And so people tend not to speak up in situations where there's poop thick. And that's a fear and that's a real fear. And so, you know, the antidote to some of that stuff, there's, when we work with a team that's got a lot of that going on, we are going to basically force them into using a process that allows for balanced participation.

Ashley Martin (25:34)

Right, because there's certain behavioral styles, certain personality styles that are gonna dominate the conversation, that are gonna talk with their hands and they always speak a lot. They don't have that fear of speaking. But other people are gonna be slower to respond or not respond at all. And so you're saying the process allows for everybody's input.

Dave (25:45)

Yeah.

Exactly and then you combine that with a kind of a group personality that that kind of molds the way they do things that serve is that the way that teams get to group thing then that's a you know, that's a danger because it's going to point them down one way in a lot of decisions Sometimes in teams, you know, we have the formal power structure, but then we also have the informal power structure.

in a team. And so sometimes that's because of what you know, like, hey, I represent this part, this discipline, part of the business, my team, and I'm an expert and you're not. So there's a little bit of fear that if I challenge that power and I'm not the expert, that I might get crushed because the expert knows more than I do. Okay. And we see that a lot in teams. You know, well, I represent

maybe your department. And this is why we can't do something because it's not going to work because of this, this, and that reason. So again, people may have a fear of confronting that, especially in teams where there might not be a lot of psychological safety. And so, yeah, so that we would raise the flag on that and okay, you got to do something differently because you are narrowing the quality of the decisions you're going to make because you got this power thing going on.

Dave (27:07)

And again, one of the antidotes is let's get some kind of a process going where it's going to minimize the chance for that Yeah. Here's, I've seen this before. Here's a fear. You're in a team and that team is kind of like, yeah, we're okay. We do okay, but we certainly aren't killing it as a team. And now we have this decision we're going to make or we're going to recommend.

don't know if I want to be part of this because there's a pretty good chance this decision is going to go bad and now I'm going to be part of the group that gets blamed for the bad decision even though I probably would have made a different decision so I don't know if I want that accountability hanging over my head. I know that's a going on but I've seen it. I've seen it because there's a lot of mediocre teams out there.

Ashley Martin (27:49)

That's a lot going on for that person.

Dave (27:58)

that are making a lot of mediocre decisions and you may have some folks inside that team who can do better, but for whatever reason their voice can't be heard. And so they're like, you know what? I think I just better sit in the background here because I don't want to be part of this because I think it's going to go south.

Ashley Martin (28:16)

Right. Right.

Is it their voice can't be heard or they're not allowing their voice to be heard?

Dave (28:23)

I think it kind of depends on the situation, right? Yeah, so anyway, yeah, just to kind of wrap up the discussion on fears. Yeah, you really need to know kind of where the hot button fears are for yourself so that you can recognize them and do something about them. And there's lots of different ways you can handle them. But the first step is to kind of have that self-awareness, right? Nothing really good happens without self-awareness. Now, when we talk about thing number four and thing number five, those are all about what we can do about some of these things and some really practical tips for moving forward and making really smart decisions.

Ashley Martin (29:22)

Awesome.